Curse

silara_jorinset · Nov 30, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

My thought is mind your own business and let ppl play how they want to play. Don't like ursanway, don't use it. A pve only skill needs a nerf? Do you understand why skills get nerfed/buffed? No, of course you don't have any clue at all or you wouldn't have suggested that. Here's your answer: pvp balance. Are you seeing the pointlessness of your suggestion yet?

Seed Of Life

blue.rellik · Nov 30, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Ursan should be deleted. It lets incredibly bad players do the high end areas/HM where it would normally require a good skilled balanced team tactics and experience to complete

Syphyre · Nov 30, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

DivineEnvoy · Nov 30, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And... some people have to pay for things in real life... so whatever.

I'm not investing in anymore GW products because, as you said... the game is over/dying. The fact that Galie (apparently) said that they have no plans to nerf UB is just another example of A.net just not getting it.

In the following sequel of Guild Wars, Norn will be a playable race. Of course, bear form, a similar skill to Ursan, will be avaliable for all the Norn people out there. Will that create an imbalance to the game? Not really. There will be other features avaliable for other races to keep them unique as well: for example, golems for Asuras. In this sense, we can see Ursan Blessing as an advertisement to how powerful Norns are.

Basically, Guild Wars is moving to a direction with more options. Hence, the game is no longer than same as how it used to be back in 2004. Our options are no longer limited to combinations of various professions, but the combinations of various professions and various races. With this said, I'm not saying Ursan should not be adjusted, but I'm pointing out how people are unable to accept changes. It is true that someone is not getting it, but are you sure it's Anet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Ursan should be deleted. It lets incredibly bad players do the high end areas/HM where it would normally require a good skilled balanced team tactics and experience to complete

How are you so sure that the people who complete high-end areas/Hard Mode are bad players, and they can only complete high-end areas/Hard Mode with Ursan? How are you so sure that such moral, which only people with so-called good skilled balanced team tactics and experiece are allowed to complete these areas are really good players?

The answer to the above questions is easy to answer: you are not sure. To support myself in saying this, I am aware of the runners who are avaliable in running these areas. In fact, I'm one of the paying costumers. Does this make me a bad player or an inexperienced player? Depends what we mean by bad or inexperienced. In my opinion, it does not. I am a post-secondary student, and my time is limited when I want to play, so I evaluate how much time each task of mine will take and make the proper decision. If there aren't any players avaliable to a Hard Mode mission, I would just hire someone, since it'll be a better worth of my time. Some people would find that smart play; others would find it inexperienced. If you are one of the latter, I'm sorry, but your opinion does not affect me, and I will continue to play the way I want.

plasmasword · Nov 30, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

just recently I have been browsing the PUG / grouping forum and seen so many posts with people saying Tyria / Cantha / Elona / FoW / UW / etc. ursan-clearout...wth?

ursan is seriously over-powered and any idiot can use it if they have high enough norn title! just derives the point of HM really? ursan-way does need a nerf and PUGs should go back to just using their skill not the exact same skill bar for the whole team because it cannot be varied...

just annoying really as people get leg.vanquisher yar-de-yar through pure over-powered ursan-way were people like me (<<<) have never used it and have cantha / elona vanquisher titles through skill not rallying behind ursan-way with a scythe for overpowered damage... etc.

not a flame just my view...thoughts would be awesome...IMO it should not have added to the game seeming as DoA and so on used to be a reasonable way to kill a few hours - ursan-way clearout of some areas 40mins tops...mallyx 15mins like wth? used to be 25mins through players using skill and sometimes going away from the cookie-cutter builds and doing something original?
ursan-way appears to be the new cookie-cutter for almost all areas NM or HM?

thoughts please?

DO NOT FLAME MY VIEWS PLEASE THEY ARE MINE...I WANT YOURS not people saying "o u nub wtf u on bout ursan is awesome"

let me guess...you got legendary vanquisher without using ursan and your crying about it because you other ppl got it way easier then you?

Sha Noran · Nov 30, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

People like winning and using Ursan Blessing makes you win; thus, Ursan Blessing will continue to be exploited until it's eventual nerf.

I would suggest that instead of fixing Ursan Blessing, just go ahead and give us back Prot Bond as it was at release. Why not? It doesn't really matter anymore.

Creeping Carl · Nov 30, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Why even bother having a game that was supposed to let people think and pick and choose from hundreds of skills to create a build when there is one single skill/build that makes everything look like crap?

UB is a no brainer. Stick it on your bar and you're practically set. It's bad for the game since a major chunk of players are ignoring everything else for UB on their skill bar.

Racthoh · Nov 30, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

With this said, I'm not saying Ursan should not be adjusted, but I'm pointing out how people are unable to accept changes.

I believe the anti-Ursan players are the ones who are all for change. They want to see a change in the skills to shake things up, for the game to become more balanced. Pro-Ursans, if I were to take a guess, will generally be the ones who voice their complaints in update threads when a certain skill or mechanic is changed negatively.

The change that anti-Ursans can't accept is that grind has become a viable path to achieve success. Suddenly a tool has become available that greatly makes up for a player's shortcomings. Can you blame them for not accepting it?

holababe · Nov 30, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

YOU dont have to use ursan

The worst and most ignorant remark to make. If ANET introduces an instant-kill skill I assume you would claim it makes the game pointless. Why? You don't have to use it!

Anyway, UB is just a tool; if people wish to use it they can. Titles hold significance mainly for the person that has earned them.

blue.rellik · Nov 30, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

How are you so sure that the people who complete high-end areas/Hard Mode are bad players, and they can only complete high-end areas/Hard Mode with Ursan?

How do I know? I know because that how GW players are. The good players, the one that learned how to evolve builds for each area, how to make team builds that functions well together, those people spent a long time becoming that good. No-one started off godly at GW, they played the game and evolved. They don't use stupid and terrible builds, they don't think because they beat the storyline then it makes their stupid builds good. Those aren't the people that want a Obsidian Flesh warrior, those aren't the people that have monks that bring no prot, those aren't the people that think Paragons are useless (and know that Agressive Refrain is still awesome-sauce), those aren't the people that bring flare. They aren't the people that don't even have Flail on their warrior.

Quote:

How are you so sure that such moral, which only people with so-called good skilled balanced team tactics and experiece are allowed to complete these areas are really good players?

ELITE areas should not be something every PUG and their grandma can breeze through simply because of one skill. Yeah sure PUGS can work for 90% of the PvE world but that's because most PUGs are NM where the game is incredibly easy, there are not many HM PUGs in comparison. While I do not say HM is actually hard (for a decent player that knows the basics, HM is just challenge mode) because I found Guardian titles to be quite easy and what I've vanquished so far hasn't been that hard. Do you know why I had little problem? It's because I have a some-what decent knowledge of what sucks in the game and what doesn't. I know what skills and heroes would suit which area, I know who to target. My warrior brings flail.

Can you see the difference there? I've seen plenty of people complaining of certain areas in EotN are 'hard' (yeah I laughed as well). I've heard of stories of a certain wurm that is the heart of the mountains being 'hard', I've heard of some multi-coloured drakes being hard, I've heard tales of some undead dungeon being difficult. I on the other hand laughed at those areas, this is not saying I'm pro because I'm not, I simply adapted to each area (and when I say adapt, I change entire skillbars on my heroes and myself. Adapting for most players is bringing a hard res, most likely rebirth). I still have difficulties in some HM areas but in general I have few problems. I mean look at Gates of Madness and all the pugs there, I was scared when I first tried it but now I know it's just another Thunderhead Keep for me, initially daunting but a piece of pie (even in HM) when you stop sucking and bring good skills. Mhenlo and Kihm are more than good enough to cover the healing and protting needs.

See what I'm getting at here? I can beat most of HM because I generally use skills that don't suck, run builds that work well together and prepare my skills for the area ahead. That does not take some after-thought, that is something that takes time to do and thus when I complete something 'difficult' I feel satisfaction because my hard work paid off.

On the other hand some silly wammo and meleemancer brings Ursan and do the same area just as easily.

Yeah.

sm5 · Nov 30, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

The argument that UB ruins balanced play and should be nerfed is moot argument. Allow me to explain by identifying the handful of reasons why people attempt HM/challenge areas and how UB has either no impact on the mentioned reason or has an irreversible effect on that reason.

Those who play for the challenge will not use UB because there is no challenge in it. They prefer to play in diverse teams, using the strengths the party to clear the area, mission, etc. Rarely would these type of players allow a player who uses UB into the party because it would ruin the fun of clearing the area.

Those who play for the title do so for the prestige of have text beneath their name. Obviously they are offended when their hard work is cheapened by someone using an easier strategy to accomplish the same feat that took them much dedication to accomplish. But the damage to prestige of the title at this point is irreversible, as a nerf to UB would not remove the title from those who acquired it by using UB. And any protests that one did acquire the title without using UB would, as mentioned previously by devaney121, be ignored.

Lastly, those who play for loot gain no advantage by using UB. It takes approximately the same amount of time to clear areas using UB as a balanced team. Skill is irrelevant for the loot reason because both teams would have to kill appx. the same amount of enemies in the same amount of time. Therefore the drops would roughly be equal (granted, there is a bit of luck involved.)

The only advantage a UB team would have over a balanced team is they can be formed much more easily than a balanced team. But balanced teams often need to plan in advance anyway and so they are much more reliable than a randomly assembled UB group.

DivineEnvoy · Nov 30, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I believe the anti-Ursan players are the ones who are all for change. They want to see a change in the skills to shake things up, for the game to become more balanced. Pro-Ursans, if I were to take a guess, will generally be the ones who voice their complaints in update threads when a certain skill or mechanic is changed negatively.

The change that anti-Ursans can't accept is that grind has become a viable path to achieve success. Suddenly a tool has become available that greatly makes up for a player's shortcomings. Can you blame them for not accepting it?

In all honesty, I do not have the cosmic authority to blame anyone for their opinions. Secondly, If I'm not misreading what you have said, I believe you are saying anti-Ursan players are unable to accept the fact that new comers are able to share the same joy they have. Isn't that better? I mean, it is a game after all, and sometimes, it is nice to share the joy with more people, even if it's not Christmas.
In saying this, I do believe a line should be drawn, which it has. The last post on the second thread of Ursan was a post where we all agreed on, since no one has made any objections. Knowing this, why are we still saying the same things over and over? We all know where these threads lead to: more promotions for Ursan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

How do I know? I know because that how GW players are. The good players, the one that learned how to evolve builds for each area, how to make team builds that functions well together, those people spent a long time becoming that good. No-one started off godly at GW, they played the game and evolved. They don't use stupid and terrible builds, they don't think because they beat the storyline then it makes their stupid builds good. Those aren't the people that want a Obsidian Flesh warrior, those aren't the people that have monks that bring no prot, those aren't the people that think Paragons are useless (and know that Agressive Refrain is still awesome-sauce), those aren't the people that bring flare. They aren't the people that don't even have Flail on their warrior.

ELITE areas should not be something every PUG and their grandma can breeze through simply because of one skill. Yeah sure PUGS can work for 90% of the PvE world but that's because most PUGs are NM where the game is incredibly easy, there are not many HM PUGs in comparison. While I do not say HM is actually hard (for a decent player that knows the basics, HM is just challenge mode) because I found Guardian titles to be quite easy and what I've vanquished so far hasn't been that hard. Do you know why I had little problem? It's because I have a some-what decent knowledge of what sucks in the game and what doesn't. I know what skills and heroes would suit which area, I know who to target. My warrior brings flail.

Can you see the difference there? I've seen plenty of people complaining of certain areas in EotN are 'hard' (yeah I laughed as well). I've heard of stories of a certain wurm that is the heart of the mountains being 'hard', I've heard of some multi-coloured drakes being hard, I've heard tales of some undead dungeon being difficult. I on the other hand laughed at those areas, this is not saying I'm pro because I'm not, I simply adapted to each area (and when I say adapt, I change entire skillbars on my heroes and myself. Adapting for most players is bringing a hard res, most likely rebirth). I still have difficulties in some HM areas but in general I have few problems. I mean look at Gates of Madness and all the pugs there, I was scared when I first tried it but now I know it's just another Thunderhead Keep for me, initially daunting but a piece of pie (even in HM) when you stop sucking and bring good skills. Mhenlo and Kihm are more than good enough to cover the healing and protting needs.

See what I'm getting at here? I can beat most of HM because I generally use skills that don't suck, run builds that work well together and prepare my skills for the area ahead. That does not take some after-thought, that is something that takes time to do and thus when I complete something 'difficult' I feel satisfaction because my hard work paid off.

On the other hand some silly wammo and meleemancer brings Ursan and do the same area just as easily.

Yeah.

Did you even read my second paragraph? Assuming you didn't, let me summarize it for you. Your so-called morals of how to play the game are really just one perspective or one way to play the game. What you have said above just further reinforces my point: you want to force your way on other people, because you believe it's the right way. However, the so-called right way does not exist. As I have stated above, many players such as myself do not have enough time to play the game like others. If they want to get through the game faster with a runner or Ursan, that's their option of playing smart. If they have to follow what you have stated above, it is likely they'll have a hard time to keep playing the game while maintaining their schedules in real life. Just a note, I'm not saying Ursan Blessing is not overpowered, but I'm pointing out there are other ways around the game than what you have stated. This brings me a question, why do you believe that you have the cosmic authority to dictate other people to play your way even if they will experience hardships while doing so?

unienaule · Nov 30, 2007, 07:02 AM // 07:02

People are bad, so they should be given auto-win skills?

Racthoh · Nov 30, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Knowing this, why are we still saying the same things over and over? We all know where these threads lead to: more promotions for Ursan.

To make noise for the cause they believe is right. If enough people make enough noise Anet might just reconsider their position on leaving the skill as is. I think the soul reaping timer for example is fine as is, but another thread on this page suggests others have another opinion.

However it does seem to be having the reverse effect with more players turning to the bear.

geminisaga · Nov 30, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by N8mare

In that way they discriminate ppl not having GWEN, because soon u won't get into any team to fow, uw or doa without UB. On the other hand they say: oh yeah, u can't put into your HoM other wpns then destroyer ones because we don't want to discriminate ppl.

Are they blind or just plain stupid ?

play as monk then

geminisaga · Nov 30, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

i love how pve ppl complaining how they suceed in PVE! lol. GG !!!

arcanemacabre · Nov 30, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

However it does seem to be having the reverse effect with more players turning to the bear.

Lol, agreed. Everytime one of my characters die, I consider using Ursan a little more, since maybe, I wouldn't die with the bear... Oooh I hate that there is this seemingly giant, red, candy-like button that says "win" on it. Bah!

Then again, they did buff CoP...

Creeping Carl · Nov 30, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

However it does seem to be having the reverse effect with more players turning to the bear.

As more and more people turn to the bear, ANET will take notice that a major chunk of their players is stagnating by sticking to that one skill neglecting all other skills and not creating builds. I dont think any developer wants a major part of their gameplay being neglected like that and UB will get nerfed. It's just a matter of when...

snikerz · Nov 30, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

UB is intended the way it is, as evident that it hasnt been nerfed after many updates and threads like this popping up, consumables is what gives it its power.

Sleeper Service · Nov 30, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I believe the anti-Ursan players are the ones who are all for change. They want to see a change in the skills to shake things up, for the game to become more balanced. Pro-Ursans, if I were to take a guess, will generally be the ones who voice their complaints in update threads when a certain skill or mechanic is changed negatively.

The change that anti-Ursans can't accept is that grind has become a viable path to achieve success. Suddenly a tool has become available that greatly makes up for a player's shortcomings. Can you blame them for not accepting it?

actually no Racthoh, at least as far as im concerned.

I'm one of those people who "complain" when updates are released, but then again my complaint is motivated by the fact that these changes are implemented in the search for (pvp)balance whereas the "PVE is easy you need no balance" mantra is repeatedly hammered into PvE players faces.

To top it off the usual "use UB if you cant deal with the update/area" remark just kills it, UB seems to have been added by Anet for exactly that reason, but then its no longer GW. IT's BEAR. UB only gives Anet the opportunity to drastically modify (read nerf) any skill for the sake of PVP with no consequence.

PvE requires balance as much as PvP does, its just a DIFFERENT kind of balance.

UB is imba, it needs fixing.